Forum Activity for @ken-rich

Hi Jerry,

When I mentioned Paul confronting Peter, I did not imply it was about prophecy, so I'm not sure why you would say that.

It was simply an example of someone standing up for the truth. That it should be seen as a commendable activity, rather than divisive.

It doesn't matter which false teaching is being confronted, as long as it's not something meaningless like genealogies.

Anyway, lets leave it there. I agree with the list you are dogmatic on. Be Blessed...

Hi Jerry,

I believe in freedom of speech and liberty of conscience, so I defend your right to use social media to post your views.

Nevertheless, I would encourage you to study an issue out until you are absolutely certain of your position, before reposting materials on it. We will all answer to God for what we teach others.

When it comes to the denominational splits, I would be careful to distinguish between apologetic discourse and quarrelsomeness. If someone stands up for the truth, they shouldn't be considered divisive.

For example, Paul had to confront and correct Peter - that is recorded for us. He also spent a great deal of time confronting false teachers, and predicted they would not spare the flock after his departure.

What he predicted came to pass, that's why there are so many denominations - the enemy works to divide and scatter.

However, uniting in error (to avoid quarreling), is not what the Bible teaches. We are not to sacrifice truth on the altar of unity. Rather, we are to contend for the true faith (Jude 1:3) but avoid meaningless quarrels over insignificant matters.

The denominational splits are caused by a lack of effective argument for the truth, not because of it. Wolves go unopposed, when those who oppose them are labelled divisive.

2 Corinthians 10:5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God...

God bless you...

Hi Jerry,

I believe there is a great difference between quarreling about words and contending for the truth.

Christian apologetics  is a much needed and honorable pursuit. It was in fact practiced by Paul and even Jesus, who were constantly arguing for the truth against the Jewish leaders. Paul also spent a substantial amount of time confronting false teachers and refuting their teachings.

Jude 1:3   I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people.

2 Timothy 4:2  Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct , rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction .

2 Corinthians 10:5  ‘We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ’

I agree that it is a meaningless argument over words, if it's about a non issue liike genologies (1 Timothy 1:4), but even then, the remedy prescribed by Paul was to  instruct them  to do otherwise.

I think if the issue is a salvation issue, an essential of the Gospel, we ought to defend the truth tenaciously against false teachers. If it's a side issue that is not going to see people lost over it, then it isn't worth arguing over. No need to " major in the minors ".

With eschatology, I accept people of different views (there are 4 major ones).  However, acceptance doesn't necessitate leaving them in darkness. It is a gravely important issue, since the anti-Christ system brutalizes millions of people, both spiritually and physically. Opposing this power and helping people escape it's deceptions (and physical harm) is a good thing.

What I see as not only dangerous, but ludicrous, is the system clearly identified as anti-Christ in scripture, is the very system people are allowing to drive their interpretation of prophecy. It points them to the past (Preterism), and to the Future (Futurism), making itself  safe  in the present, where it deceives, destroys, corrupts, and masqueraded as the representation of God on  earth.

There is relatively little opposition, because most of Christianity is completely duped. Thanks to it's teachings, 95 % of people are scouting the horizon for some future anti-Christ (and fictional future scenario), while ignoring the wolf in sheep's clothing that frolics in their own backyard.

It would almost be laughable, if it's crimes against God and humanity were not so horrendous. From wars, to inquisitions, to doctrinal deceptions, to the rape and torture of children, to the amassing of obscene wealth and political power. It has committed atrocities for centuries and continues to do so, all the while claiming the prerogatives of God.

Our conversation ensued when I saw you post something on Facebook which said America is Babylon. We need not argue over that, since 1 Peter 5:13 equates Babylon with Rome, and settles the matter for us. Why impose our own interpretations, when the word of God interprets itself?

Hi Nate,

Our general outreach involving live shows and bookings is HERE

Personally I'm a "closet" artist, recording alone in a basement and not in demand as I can't afford to produce a professional album with studio musician and the like, or go on stage with a band.

So I can't speak to your question really. I did an "impromptu" performance at the local United Church yesterday - that was fun but not a "booking" or " professional" performance.

The stage fright almost gave me a heart attack and it was only a small crowd - lol.

Hi Zack,

Don't get me wrong. You don't have to be politically motivated to buy into an idea that someone politically motivated has given birth to. That's what makes propaganda powerful, it's spread by those who are influenced by it.

For instance, I remember when Reagan was president they were saying he was the anti-Christ because his names each had 6 letters - Ronald Wilson Reagan (666) . You didn't have to be a Democrat to jump on that bandwagon, but I think it's fair to say that it was mostly democrats that sent it around to everyone on their mailing lists - lol.

The Bush Presidents were vilified too, although the second one was not perceived as " bright " enough to be the anti-Christ by most people - lol.

Like I said, as a Canadian I find it amusing. Perhaps I'm also immune to these shenanigans because I follow the traditional Protestant view of the anti-Christ. I don't take it seriously when a President is vilified with the title because I know that NO President can fit the other points of the prophecy.

Likewise, one could argue that the view of the Pope's self proclaimed (by forgery) title ofVICARIUS FILII DEI equalling 666, is just Protestant propaganda. One could brush it off as an intent to vilify, except that it is only 1 of 7 clues in Daniel, and 11 clues in Revelation, that  ALL point to the Papacy.

God left us identifying marks or clues as to who this power is. Many people and powers can fit 1 point of the prophecy, some powers can even be construed to fit several points, but there has only ever been one world power that fits  all 18 points and that is the Papacy.The Romish Church is the little horn power, anti-Christ power, and whore of Babylon as traditional Protestant eschatology (historicism) teaches and some in the dispenstational camp also teach (with differences on timing, etc.).

For example, it's a power dressed in purple and scarlet (their official colors), it's also a city on seven hills (Rome), it rules over the Kings of the Earth (as they did for centuries), it martyrs the saints of the most high (read Foxe's Book of Martyrs), it is rich (read "The Vatican Billions" by Avro Manhattan), it is corrupt (look at the worldwide child sex abuse scandals in the news), it would rise in Western Europe amid the divisions of the Roman Empire (History of the Christian Church vol. 3, p. 327), it would destroy 3 kingdoms as it rose (the Vandals, the Ostrogoths, and the Heruli), etc., etc, That it has a man at it's head and his name adds to 666, is just one indicator among 18.

Being a Canadian, I always find it funny when Americans vilify their political opponents. If a Republican is in, the Democrats come up with a thousand ways to demonize them. If a Democrat is in, the Republicans do the same.

Obama is not the anti-Christ. The anti-Christ has been synonymous with the Papacy since Reformation times. All of the great reformers, in fact all of Protestantism, held this view for centuries. About 100-150 years ago futurism succeeded in overturning historicism as the predominant Eschatology, and now the truth is all but lost to the masses.

A Great Cloud of Witnesses:"Wycliffe, Tyndale, Luther, Calvin, Cranmer, Bunyan, the translators of the King James Bible and the men who published the Westminster and Baptist confessions of Faith; Sir Isaac Newton, Wesley, Whitfield, Jonathan Edwards; and more recently Spurgeon, Bishop J.C. Ryle and Dr. Martin Lloyd-Jones; these men among countless others, all saw the office of the Papacy as the antichrist ."Taken from All Roads Lead to Rome, by Michael de Semlyen. Dorchestor House Publications, p. 205. 1991.

Modern historicists still hold that the Papacy is anti-Christ and some influential dispensationalists do as well, including Dave Hunt. They have significant differences in the timeline and view of Israel, but Rome is still identified as the seat of anti-Christ. 

Roman Catholic futurism (from the Jesuit Ribera) is now the predominantview and is taught almost everywhere, even in conservative Evangelical circles. It is so entrenched and promoted it is the only view most modern Christians have heard of, and anything to the contrary creates cognitive dissonance .

The Scofield Reference Bible, Hal Lindseys " The Late Great Planet Earth ", the " Left Behind " series, are examples of modern indoctrination to this false view. It is counter-reformation doctrine that entered Protestantism primarily through John Nelson Darby and the Plymouth Brethren.

Antichrist would be a single evil person who would be received by the Jews and would rebuild Jerusalem, abolish Christianity, deny Christ, persecute the Church and rule the world for three and a half years. ...This futurist interpretation with its personal Antichrist and three and a half year period of tribulation did not take root in the Protestant church until the early nineteenth century. "The Blessed Hope" by George Eldon Ladd.

The fact is,  Andreas Helwig  put forward the answer to this riddle centuries ago, by counting the numbers in the letters of the Popes official title -VICARIUS FILII DEI

Languages like Greek and Hebrew have numerical values to their letters and having a number to your name was common in ancient times.

NUMERAL NAME VALUE I unus 1 V quinque 5 X decem 10 L quinquaginta 50 C centum 100 D quingenti 500 M mille 1000 

VICARIUS FILII DEI

Hi Zack,

As someone from the Premillennial Historicist camp, I would agree with a coming thousand year reign. I would also agree in using the day for a year principle in symbolic prophecy -exact start and stop points remain a debatable matter, but the principle is sound.

I would agree that 1 Thess 4:16-18 speaks of the first resurrection and catching away of the saints. However, I don't see a secret pre-trib rapture before this.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days... .... they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

It is not us comingon horses to return with Christ - he is coming with his holy ones (Angels) not secretly raptured saints.

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels , and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.

We will have to agree to disagree on a literal 3 1/2 year future great tribulation with a personal anti-Christ. The Jesuit Francisco Ribera got that by inserting an erroneousgap of over 2,000 years into Daniel 9:26-27, and havinga personalanti-Christ (Beliar myth), fulfill what Christ has already fulfilled.

Ribera'smanipulation of this versewas adopted by Darby and spread into Protestant circles, but this is an error very strongly refuted HERE by H. Grattan Guinness D. D.

Byway of example, Matthew Henry (below) has a brief exposition of theproper Protestant interpretation of Daniel 9. There is no gap or anti-Christmaking a peace pact with the Jews in that verse.

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary

We have, in verses 24-27, one of the most remarkable prophecies of Christ, of his coming and his salvation. It shows that the Jews are guilty of most obstinate unbelief, in expecting another Messiah, so long after the time expressly fixed for his coming. The seventy weeks mean a day for a year, or 490 years. About the end of this period a sacrifice would be offered, making full atonement for sin, and bringing in everlasting righteousness for the complete justification of every believer. Then the Jews, in the crucifixion of Jesus, would commit that crime by which the measure of their guilt would be filled up, and troubles would come upon their nation.

It's interesting that historicism.com which espouses roughly the same view I do, is run by a Baptist adhering to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689. I am not a Baptist per se, but the premillennial historicist interpretation which that site and I both agree on, is shared bysuch luminaries as Henry Grattan Guinness, A. J. Gordon, Charles H. Spurgeon,and A. B. Simpson.

How you as a modern Baptist are now holding elements ofProtestant historicism and elements of Jesuit futurism at the same time, isa matter worthy of some investigation and reflection on your part.That Catholic counter-reformation doctrines are being taught fromBaptist seminaries today, is quite alarming from my perspective.

Be Blessed,

Ken

Hi Zack,

I'm still somewhat sick (not 100% better)and have only skimmed this but I notice Newton was quoted: Newton, referring this prophecy to the Eastern apostasy, Mohammedanism, remarks that the same period of three and a half years, or 1,260 prophetic days, is assigned to it as is assigned to the Western apostasy of the little horn (Dan 7:25); and so, says Prideaux, Mohammed began to forge his imposture, retiring to his cave 606 AD, the very year that Phocas made the grant to the Bishop of Rome, whence he assumed the title, The Universal Pastor; Antichrist thus setting both feet on Christendom

Newton was a historicist who believed in the day for a year principle, thus the 1260 days were 1260 years. Some take the start date at 538 some at 606 (there are few other start dates) but the 1260 year reign of the little horn of Daniel 7 would be the Papacy during the Middle ages. In that all historicists agree.

Here you are again talking about years and the day for a year principle.

...thinks the 1,260 years begin when Justinian in 533 AD subjected the Eastern churches to John II, Bishop of Rome; ending in 1792, when the code Napoleon was established and the Pope was dishonoured. 1,290 reach to 1822, about the time of the waning of the Turkish power, the successor to Greece in the empire of the East.

Again day for a year:

Forty-five years more end in 1867, the end of the times of the Gentiles." See Lev 26:24, "I will punish you yet seven times for your sins" - "seven times," i.e., 7 X 360, or 2,520 years. 652 BC is the date of Judah's captivity beginning under Manasses; 2,520 from this date end in 1868, thus nearly harmonizing with the previous date, 1867. See note, also, Dan 8:14, "Unto two thousand and three hundred days."

However, in this part of your post you are abandoning the historicist time line and jumping intoRibera's futurism: ...constitute the reign of the personal Antichrist; in the last three and a half, the period of final tribulation

The sources you quoted above like Newton would have saw this 31/2 years as 1260 days, or 42 months, and using a day for a year this makes the 31/2 yearsthe 1260 year reign of the Papacy in the Middle ages. The anti-Christ being not personal, but a system with a man at it's head - the Pope. A great explanation of this aspect of the prophecies is in "The Approaching End of the Age"by H. Grattan Guinness D.D. CHAPTER II. THE MAN OF SIN, OR ANTICHRIST .

Also, the separation between Israel and the Church is not viewed the samein orthodox Christian eschatology, as it is in dispensational futurism. We are also looking for Israel to be restored from dispersion and joined again to the olive tree but not thesame way. It'sby accepting Christ and the terms of the new covenant, not restoring the obsolete temple sacrifice system and making a peace pact with a personal anti-Christ.

That literal 31/2 years,personal anti-Christ, and peace pact with Jews comes from theJesuit Ribera butchering one clause,of one line,in Daniel 9:27. Explainedif you scroll down (just past half way) tothe short extract from " Approaching End of the Age " by H. Grattan Guinness D.D. - HERE

I don't understand why some elements of historicism are mixed with futurism in your post??? It doesn't make sense to me. If it were one or the other, it would be easier to categorize and to know what school you belong to and what you are driving at?

This Messianicsite (surprisingly) has an historicist view of Daniel 10,11,12 posted that I find quite satisfying - HERE While I don't see eye to eye on many things with the owner, my hat is off on the interpretation of chapters 11, 12.

Hi Zack,

I've come downwith pneumonia. I can't concentrate enough to read the whole thing at the moment. I'll have to return to this at a later date - sorry.

Hi Dee,

There is a book called " The Secret History of the Jesuits " which sheds some light on who the Jesuits are.

My view of Rev. 13 is the same as the reformers. The Sea Beast is the Roman Empire which is proved by a study of Daniel. The beast is a conglomerate of the beasts described in Daniel because Rome absorbed their Kingdoms.

The beast out of the land with two horns represents the Papacy which is both a civil (see code of Justinian) and religious power (thus two horns). It breathed life into an image of the beast creating Papal Rome or the Holy Roman Empire. This is born out by it's parallel prophecy in Daniel, of the little horn power which has the same activities for the same time period.

There are a couple of interesting facts that serve as secondary fulfillments as well. From the time of Pope Gregory (590), bishops wore a pallium (cloak/mantle) of lambs wool and a miter with two points and were known as Gorutithe horned ones! There was also a popular character in the myths of that time that John would have known about - Tages. He appears out of the earth as a demi-God and worker of false wonders.

Besides breathing life into an image of the beast and demanding a revised emperor worship (Popes) this power caused all who would not comply to be killed and forbade trade with anyone who disagreed with her.

Many Papal decrees, forbidding trade with heretics could be quoted.

For example, at the Third Lateran Council in 1178 Pope Alexander III issued an order that no man presume to entertain or cherish them (the Protestants) in his house, or land, or exercise traffic with them. The same Pope passed a law against the Protestant Waldenses and Albigenses, demanding that no man should presume to receive or assist them in selling or buying, that, being deprived of humanity, they may be compelled to repent of the error of their way.

Pope Martin V in his decree sent out after the Council of Constance, commanded that they permit not the heretics to have homes in their districts, or enter into contracts, or carry on commerce, or enjoy the comforts of humanity with Christians.

The poor Protestants were a minority, unable to own their own homes, or even rent somewhere to live, and unable to sell their goods or earn a living. As a result, these Bible-loving members of the true Church starved and perished because they would not bear the mark of the beast.

Many people push too much into the future and look for fanciful fulfillments that they read into the text.  Christ said when he comes it will be like the time of Noah...eating and drinking, marrying giving in marriage... business as usual.

If everyone is getting micro-chipped by the NWO, and shoved into concentration camps, I don't see that as business as usual. It would make Christ's words in Matthew 24:38 of no effect.

What I see on the horizon is people totally caught off guard, since they were looking for the wrong thing (or not looking at all). Then Christ appears and sudden wrath falls on the wicked, but the righteous are protected. A type of this would have been the deliverance from Babylon and especially Egypt.

Isaiah 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

God marks those who are his for protection before the trouble starts - we are not appointed to wrath.

Revelation 7:3 Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God."