Forum Activity for @ken-rich

3 Little girls and a visit?

Christian Teachings

Hi David,

No one here has said they do not believe in eternal life, so why make that accusation?

No one here disputes whether or not God is greater than the Bible, or whether all he does, or doesn't do, is contained in the Bible, so why make that accusation?

What Protestants contend, is that we can know truth by validating it from Scripture. Not to be able to do so, invalidates any claim that a teaching has been revealed by God.

God chose to reveal the unchanging gospel to us, and as the Apostle Paul said, any other gospel is false . So we have been given a way to verify the truth about salvation, by comparing new events and teachings, to what is recorded in Scripture.

Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

This comes back again to the patristic principle of sola scriptura, a principle universally adhered to in the early Church. But one which has been repudiated by the Roman Church and which has resulted in its embracing and promoting teachings, such as the assumption of Mary, which were never taught in the early Church and which have no Scriptural backing . THE ASSUMPTION OF MARY

So, by refusing to accept what God has explicitly revealed as truth, as the standard by which to confirm or reject new claims by men, or apparitions, Rome has accepted and promoted teachings that contradict the Gospel , as preached by Paul and the Apostles. This is the contention. Don't side step the issue, and go off on other subjects - this is the crux of the matter.

The Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox Churches teach that the Scriptures are not the only infallible source of Christian doctrine (sola scriptura). For them Scripture is but one of three equal authorities; the other two being Sacred Tradition and the episcopacy. Wikipedia

Without the Word of God as their final authority, the Popes ended up making fools of themselves by claiming infallibility, while at the same time contradicting themselves on this very subject.

The assumption of Mary was derived from Gnostic literature and Pope Gelasius explicitly condemns the authors as well as their writings and the teachings which they promote and all who follow them. And significantly, this entire decree and its condemnation was reaffirmed by Pope Hormisdas in the sixth century around A.D. 520. (Migne Vol. 62. Col. 537-542). These facts prove that the early Church viewed the assumption teaching, not as a legitimate expression of the pious belief of the faithful but as a heresy worthy of condemnation. THE ASSUMPTION OF MARY

Yet this very teaching that earlier "infallible" Popes declared to be heresy, was declared a dogma of the Catholic faith by another "infallible" Pope.

The Immaculate Mother of God, the ever Virgin Mary, having completed the course of her earthly life, was assumed body and soul into heavenly glory (Munificentissimus Deus, Pope Pius XII, 1950).

So my Brother, the issue is - are you going to believe the gospel according to Rome, or the gospel according to the Bible? If Rome, will it be the two "infallible" Popes who declared it heresy, or the one "infallible" Pope who made it official dogma of the Catholic faith?

With love and respect,

Ken

3 Little girls and a visit?

Christian Teachings

Hi Paul,The "state of the dead" is a separate issue, and you should start a new forum post on the subject, if you wish to pursue it.The reason that argument does not work here, is the Roman Catholic doctrine of the assumption of Mary teaches that she was assumed body and soul into heaven either without dying , or shortly after death.The Immaculate Mother of God, the ever Virgin Mary, having completed the course of her earthly life , was assumed body and soul into heavenly glory (Munificentissimus Deus, Pope Pius XII, 1950).In other words, the wording is ambiguous enough to include translation before death, as in the case of Enoch and Elijah. Some Roman Catholics go so far as to teach that Mary was resurrected on the third day, just like Jesus, and that Mary ascended into Heaven, just like Jesus. What is the Assumption of Mary? There is already a blog post by Sarah Mazzie called DO YOU HAVE A HUMAN SPIRIT???????? which touches on " the state of the dead ". She supports your view, and would (more than likely), take your side in a forum discussion on it.Stay Blessed,Ken

3 Little girls and a visit?

Christian Teachings

Hi Paul,

Glad that you joined us once again. The " state of the dead " is something hotly disputed among Christians, some believing as you do, that they sleep with no conscience thought until they are resurrected.

Others, interpret differently and see the dead as " absent from the body, present with the Lord ", in a different sort of intermediate state, before the resurrection.

However, one thing all scholars agree on, is that there is absolutely no Scriptural evidence, for the bodily assumption of Mary, as taught by Rome. This dogma was denounced by early Popes, and it's origin is with Gnosticism, not the Bible, or early Christians. It serves to bring into Christianity the worship of " the Queen of Heaven " as practiced by ancient pagans, before there ever was a Church.

Catholic authors readily admit that the Assumption is not explicitly taught in Scripture. In the biblical narrative, Mary is last mentioned in Acts 1 where she is found praying with the other disciples before Pentecost. After that, the Bible is silent about her life and death...

The Catholic Encyclopedia admits that the first genuine written references to the Assumption come from authors who lived in the sixth to the eight centuries ...

Catholic theology has exalted Mary to the heavens, and it is therefore natural for Catholics to look to her for their spiritual needs . O most sweet Lady and our Mother, thou hast already left the earth and reached thy kingdom, where, as Queen, thou art enthroned From the high throne, then, to which thou art exalted, turn, O Mary, thy compassionate eyes upon us, and pity us. (Of the Assumption of Mary, St. Alphonsus de Liguori).

Despite their protestations to the contrary, the sad truth is that such Marian devotion detracts from that simple faith and devotion to the Lord Jesus Christ . The Scripture explicitly speaks of Jesus, who having lived a sinless life, died for sinners, was buried and raised from the death, and after forty days He ascended into Heaven, where He is reigning in glory, interceding for His people. Compassion and pity is found only when we have recourse to the Lord Jesus. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him (not Mary), seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them . For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens (Hebrews 7:25,26)

Quotes above from The Assumption of Mary Refuted!

Tertullian says that we can know if God has done something by validating it from Scripture. Not to be able to do so invalidates any claim that a teaching has been revealed by God. This comes back again to the patristic principle of sola scriptura, a principle universally adhered to in the early Church. But one which has been repudiated by the Roman Church and which has resulted in its embracing and promoting teachings, such as the assumption of Mary, which were never taught in the early Church and which have no Scriptural backing .

The only grounds the Roman Catholic faithful have for believing in the teaching of the assumption is that a supposedly infallible Church declares it. But given the above facts the claim of infallibility is shown to be completely groundless. How can a Church which is supposedly infallible promote teachings which the early Church condemned as heretical? Whereas an early papal decree anathematized those who believed the teaching of an apocryphal Gospel, now papal decrees condemn those who disbelieve it. The conclusion has to be that teachings such as Marys assumption are the teachings and traditions of men, not the revelation of God.

Taken from - THE ASSUMPTION OF MARY (A Roman Catholic Dogma Originating with Heretics and Condemned as Heretical by 2 Popes in the 5th and 6th Centuries)


With love and respect,

Ken

3 Little girls and a visit?

Christian Teachings

Hi David,I am sorry, but you are quite mistaken about the rosary being about Jesus and not Mary, and being all gospel prayers taken directly from the gospels .The following is the Hail Holy Queen prayer, that is, the ending of the Rosary:"Hail, Holy Queen, Mother of Mercy, hail, our life, our sweetness, and our hope! ...Turn then, most gracious advocate , ...O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary !"The Hail Holy Queen prayer -- which proclaims Mary as "our" LIFE , SWEETNESS, HOPE and MOST GRACIOUS ADVOCATE -- has an official endorsement from Vatican II .By calling Mary "our life," present-day Catholicism is saying indirectly, through the Rosary, that she has a role in our salvation! According to the Bible, this is "another gospel" (Gal. 1:8,9)Here are official statements from Vatican II on the subject. ...filial love towards her who is the Mother of the Church and of consecrated souls. This love for the Virgin will be manifested with the celebration of her feasts and, in particular, with daily prayer in her honour, especially the Rosary . (Vatican Council II, Vol. 2, p.251.) ...when the family gathering becomes a time of prayer the Rosary is a frequent and favoured manner of praying'. In this way, authentic devotion to Mary , which finds expression in sincere love and generous imitation of the Blessed Virgin's interior spiritual attitude, constitutes a special instrument for nourishing loving communion in the family and for developing conjugal and family spirituality. For she who is the Mother of Christ and of the Church is in a special way the Mother of Christian families, of domestic Churches" (ibid., pp. 865, 866).What you seem to be overlooking is that the Bible teaches that Jesus is our advocate, not Mary. He is the only way to the Father, not Mary. The Gospel is about faith in Jesus, he died for us, not Mary.Mary was blessed to have been chosen to bear him, but the Bible in no way elevates her to co-redeemer, advocate, or a helper in our salvation, in any way, shape, or form.Jesus is the mediator of the new covenant, not Mary. Your relationship with Jesus should be direct and personal, not through a Priest, Saint, Mary, or anyone else.Hebrews 4 14-16 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens's Jesus the Son of God , let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. ...Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need. Did Jesus teach us to pray to Mary? Isn't the Lord's Prayer to our Father, not Mary? Did he tell us to ask for things in her name, or his name?Mary may have been a fine woman, she was chosen to bear Jesus, but she is not Jesus. She can't save you, she didn't die for you, and no where does the Bible teach that she is a mediator between God and man.Rome is teaching a different Gospel - flee from Babylon! I say it in love, with an honest desire to see you in the Kingdom. "The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an 'epitome of the whole Gospel,' express this devotion to the Virgin Mary" (Catechism of the Catholic Church, Liguori Publications, p.253.) In stark contrast to the Rosary (with its "mysteries") being the "epitome of the whole Gospel" as Rome put it, the Apostle Paul clearly outlined an entirely different Gospel, which he preached -- the one that brings true salvation. Please note that Paul never mentioned Mary directly or indirectly! Similarly, Peter, who was supposedly the first pope, NEVER mentioned Mary at all in either of his two books of the New Testament. Quotes are from "Born Again" Catholics And The Rosary Also see - The Rosary is Blasphemy Against God! With love and respect,Ken
updated by @ken-rich: 07/12/15 09:50:44PM

3 Little girls and a visit?

Christian Teachings

Hi David,If you think what was said by the "Mary" of these visions is truth, then I would like you to consider this quote, from the same link I already pointed you to:-------------------------------------------------------------------------The following is a clear example of a false gospel , but nonetheless is part of the salvation message at Fatima. The personage claiming to be Mary said:I promise to assist at the hour of death with the graces necessary for salvation all those who, on the first Saturday of five consecutive months, go to Confession and receive Holy Communion, recite five decades of the Rosary and keep me company for a quarter of an hour while meditating on the mysteries of the Rosary, with the intention of making reparation to me (p. 47).Dear reader, please know that Mary doesnt have the ability or influence to make such a promise to assist in ones salvation. Furthermore, even if she did, her directives are not true. All this talk about going to confession, receiving communion, reciting 5 decades of the Rosary, etc. is all foreign to the Bible. This was never the message of Jesus, Paul, Peter, John, James, etc. Did God have his salvation message changed or revised for us since Fatima? If He did, then there is now another way to obtain salvation since the Fatima visions, which is impossible. There has only been one true plan of salvation alongside many counterfeits. The following is most relevant about a false gospel: .... Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned! (Gal 1:7-9) The Fatima Visions With Love and respect,Ken

3 Little girls and a visit?

Christian Teachings

Hi David,I really wish you would refrain from personal attacks and character assassination. It is very unchristian and in poor taste. I could ban, you but I choose to tun the other cheek once again.You say this is non-Catholic and different that the plethora of other Marian apparitions but others do not see it that way. According to the Catholic church, the Virgin Mary appeared at Fatima, Portugal numerous times in 1917 to three little shepherds named Lucia, Francisco and Jacinta. Since the Roman Catholic church has endorsed and fully accepted these visions as being from God and they have in turn affected hundreds of millions of people over the years by their messages these are very important Marian apparitions. The Fatima Visions

3 Little girls and a visit?

Christian Teachings

Hi David,I know of no one claiming infallibility except the Pope, so I see no reason for you to keep making that allegation, about anyone but him. Their supposed authority is based on apostolic succession , which is ridiculous to anyone who knows the sorted history of the Roman Church, and the teachings of the Bible.However, I respect your freedom of conscience and expression. If you wish to follow Rome, or worship Mary, you have that freedom. I would hope that you can tone down your rhetoric, and stop calling people fatheads , simply because they disagree with your point of view. On this network you will have to respect the freedom of conscience and expression of others, and refrain from character assassination - or find yourself banned.Here are some statements by Catholic leaders about Mary that directly contradict the Bible! "Membership in the Militia means complete dedication to the Kingdom of God and to the salvation of souls through Mary Immaculate. " -Pope John Paul II " We have an advocate in Mary that the father, Son, and Holy Spirit cannot say no to. It is impossible for them to say no to her! -Fr. Stephan ScheierPerhaps you should study the issue of Mary Worship, before you condemn those who refuse to practice it. You might find that they have amply reason to feel the way they do. Here are some links, one is from a former Catholic nun, who was involved in Mary worship, but has rejected it in favor of true worship. Mary Worship? Worship of Mary Mary Worship With love and respect,Ken

3 Little girls and a visit?

Christian Teachings

Hi David,

Most Protestants reject the Catholic teachings on Mary, because they have no basis in Scripture. We base our beliefs on the word of God - not the inventions of Papists, nor pagan teachings that Papists incorporated into their version of Christianity.Further, most Protestants reject the Marian apparitions as demonic activity.2 Corinthians 11:14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. The Catholic Church was not the first to worship the " Queen of Heaven ", this was a long standing practice in occult religions.Dictionary of Phrase and Fable, 1894: " Queen of Heaven with the ancient Phoenicians, was Astarte; Greeks, Hera; Romans, Juno; Trivia, Hecate, Diana, the Egyptian Isis, etc., were all so called; but with the Roman Catholics it is the Virgin Mary ." Temple of the Temptress: "Diana was called the Mother goddess and Queen of heaven , just as Mary is called Mother of god and queen of heaven ." Encyclopedia Britannica: "Astarte/Ashtoreth is the Queen of Heaven to whom the Canaanites had burned incense and poured libations."

Personally, I believe something supernatural occurred at Fatima, but I do not believe it was of God. I have looked into what " Mary " has said, in some of these alleged visitations, and many of her statements contradict the word of God. Therefore, I must conclude that the spirit behind these apparitions is not of God .1 John 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God... Here are two quotes below (with links), if you wish to study this out further. My advice to you is flee from idolatry, test the Spirits, and study the Bible for yourself. Let no church, institution, teacher, preacher, priest, or apparition, come between you and a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, or rob you of the truth - as it is in Jesus.

Idolatry is the main fruit which comes forth from all of the apparitions of Mary. Statues, medals and scapulars are just a few examples of that, and over the years they have sold in the millions.Do I believe that ALL of the apparitions are demonic in nature? Yes I do, and I will continue to sound the alarm because that is exactly what the word of God commands us to do!. MARIAN APPARITIONS: DIVINE OR DEMONIC?

Most Protestants reject the vast majority of Catholic teachings regarding Mary as anything from aberrant, to heretical.Some of the unbiblical teachings relating to the Mary of Catholic Tradition include the following:1.Marys immaculate conception: This doctrine teaches that she was born without original sin and was, therefore, sinless throughout her life.2.Marys perpetual virginity: This dogma asserts that she had no children after Jesus.3.Marys bodily assumption or physical ascension into heaven: This teaches that because of her sinlessness, Mary never experienced physical death. Instead she was raised bodily into the presence of Christ.4.Marys role as Co-redemptrix and Mediatrix of all grace: This doctrine holds that the obedience and sufferings of Mary were essential to secure the full redemption brought by Christ.5.Marys right to veneration and/or worship: This teaching argues that because of her unparalleled role in the economy of salvation, Mary is worthy of special adoration. - Source: John Ankerberg and John Weldon, The Facts on Roman Catholicism, Harvest House, Oregon, 1993, p.40; citing The Catholic Encyclopedia UnBiblical Teachings on Mary

updated by @ken-rich: 12/21/14 10:18:00AM

Separation of Church and State

Religion/Philosophy

Hi David,I don't believe any Church institution speaks for God. The Church is not a denomination, an institution, an organization, or any such thing those are man made distinctions.The true "Church" if you will, is simply made up of people who have the Spirit of God living in them.1 Corinthians 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.1 Corinthians 6:19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God?God speaks to us through the Scriptures, and the "foolishness of preaching".1Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?Sometimes God speaks to individuals in visions, or dreams, though angelic messengers, but most commonly by his Spirit. That "inner voice", that convicts you when you sin, is his Spirit working on your conscience, guiding you.The State is not "left off the hook", if a man made institution that "claims" it speaks for God, doesn't intervene and control the State.History is littered with religious persecutions and tyranny, because of that type of thinking.

Separation of Church and State

Religion/Philosophy

Hi David,I will certainly agree with you on three points.It is tough to be a true Christian, or a person of integrity and morals (of any stripe), and be in the political arena.We can't take God out, I agree. However, we can take "the institutional Church" out of politics. The "institutional Church" is not God. The Church should not control the State, and the State should allow for religious freedom. Civil and religious freedom must prevail.Also, like you, I thank God for His mercy, forgiveness, and grace. We all need it!Be Blessed,Ken